If Ireland revives its blasphemy laws, Irish artists and other citizens could face extradition to States like Greece or Turkey under the terms of the 2004 European Arrest Warrant. This allows one State to issue warrants for the arrest of citizens of another State, if the crime involved is a crime in both jurisdictions.
Already, in 2005, an Austrian cartoonist has faced extradition to Greece on blasphemy charges, when a book of his cartoons was published there. And Turkey, which may soon be a European Union member, is this month trying a novelist for blasphemy. This is yet another reason stop the proposed Irish blasphemy law.
The European Arrest Warrant
The European Arrest Warrant was introduced to speed up the extradition of suspected or convicted criminals between European Union countries. Some crimes are automatically covered by the act, such as terrorism, fraud, child pornography, racketeering and murder. Other crimes can also be covered, if they attract a 12 month prison sentence in the country seeking the extradition, and if the offence is also a crime in the country where the person whose extradition is sought is living.
The case of Gerhard Haderer
In 2002, Austrian cartoonist Gerhard Haderer wrote a book of cartoons satirising the life of Jesus. The book sold well in Germany, and was translated into 10 international languages. When it was published in Greece, it was banned, and Haderer was charged with blasphemy. In January 2005, he was convicted of blasphemy in his absence, and was given a six-month suspended prison sentence. The Greek courts then sought his arrest under the terms of the European Arrest Warrant.
Because blasphemy remains an offence in the Austrian legal code, Hadarer could not automatically escape the decision of the Greek court. He appealed his conviction in Greece, risking a two-year prison sentence in doing so. Fortunately, the Greek Supreme Court overturned the original decision, and Hadarer was free. But, despite being an Austrian citizen living in Austria, his freedom had been determined by decisions made in Greece about the Greek interpretation of blasphemy laws.
The case of Nedim Gursel
Later this month, on June 25, a Turkish author will be tried for blasphemy because he wrote a novel that questions the ideas of belief and violence in Islam. Nedim Gursel Says that his book, “Daughters of Allah”, is a work of fiction and that his extensive research included consultation with religious leaders. Nevertheless, he faces up to a year in jail if convicted, because a Turkish citizen complained that he had used inappropriate language against the Prophet Muhammad, his wives and the Koran.
In April, Gursel wrote a public letter to the Turkish Prime Minister, in which he noted the damage that such trials could cause to Turkey’s efforts to join the European Union. No doubt the supporters of Turkey’s blasphemy laws would be delighted if they could counter this by pointing to Dermot Ahern’s revival of the Irish blasphemy laws. And maybe, in the future, Turkey can celebrate its entry to the European Union by extraditing an Irish citizen to spend time in a Turkish prison for blasphemy.
Sources
- Framework text of the European Arrest Warrant
- Artists and the European Arrest Warrant
- Muslim outrage puts Turkish writer in the dock for blasphemy
This is absolutely chilling. Also, if this law can be applied to works published in another country, how long will it be before it is applied to anything published on the internet?
Comment by Monkfishy — June 7, 2009 @ 12:32 am
This is insane! Talk about the slippery slope! OK, the problem is clear, but… WHAT CAN BE DONE TO ENSURE THAT THIS DOESN’T HAPPEN?
Comment by Liam — June 7, 2009 @ 12:46 am
Nothing Liam, all the whinging and wailing will not stop Minister Ahern doing what he must do constitutionally. It’s inevitable
Comment by Mujaahid — June 7, 2009 @ 11:46 pm
Nothing Liam, all the whinging and wailing will not stop Minister Ahern doing what he must do constitutionally. It’s inevitable
Really? well perhaps the hammering Fianna Fail have got in the elections will bring dermot to his senses
Comment by Talia — June 8, 2009 @ 12:25 am
“Nothing Liam, all the whinging and wailing will not stop Minister Ahern doing what he must do constitutionally. It’s inevitable
”
Surely you’ve been living in Ireland long enough (being a proud Irishman with a name like Liam Egan) to know that the only thing that is inevitable in Irish politics is the U-turn. Good luck with the Caliphate – you’ll need it!
Comment by The Kafir — June 8, 2009 @ 7:18 am
Caliphate – goodness me, you’ve been reading too much Hizb-ut-Tahrir. Nah, I’ll momentarily settle for equality! When I see an hijabbed Muslim female or a bearded Muslim male in the Dail, sitting alongside their non-Muslim counterparts making decisions and shaping the future of New Ireland for the betterment of ALL its citizens, then we will have achieved something.
Comment by Mujaahid — June 8, 2009 @ 11:24 am
Well, in a democratic society such as ours (a foreign concept to most Muslims) the hijabbed Muslim female or bearded Muslim male are free to run for office and be elected by their peers, should they see fit. Equality has nothing to do with it.
Comment by The Kafir — June 8, 2009 @ 12:08 pm
Kafir – if the Gardai are kicking up a fuss over their supremacist ideas of ‘neutrality’, I suspect you can proffer the lie of equality all you want, the proof is in the pudding.
What is a democracy Kafir, do you know?
Comment by Mujaahid — June 8, 2009 @ 6:30 pm
A democracy is a place where one is not persecuted for one’s religious beliefs (or lack of them) unlike in Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. It is a place where there are democratic elections and fair trials and where all people regardless of gender are treated equally under the law. In other words, honour killings are not considered to be worthy of a paltry fine. In other words, a democracy is totally incompatible with an Islamic totalitarian regime.
Comment by The Kafir — June 10, 2009 @ 8:07 am
“A democracy is a place where one is not persecuted for one’s religious beliefs” so why were Muslim girls and women threatened with restrictions on access to education here in Ireland? Why are Muslim women and Sikh men excluded from employment within An Garda Siochana, why are certain businesses allowed to exclude bearded Muslim men – it seems to me that persecution is alive and well in Ireland, so using that criteria, Ireland isn’t a democracy.
“It is a place where there are democratic elections and fair trials and where all people regardless of gender are treated equally under the law.” Again Ireland fails, look at the banks debacle, where are the fair trials, look at your ex-leader Bertie’s shenanigans. Women in Ireland to date do not receive equal pay and still suffer discrimination over maternity issues. As for democratic elections – well it seems to me whenever a Muslim country takes on such a system you guys aren’t happy and threaten war, Algeria, Hamas, Somalia spring to mind as recent examples. Of course Muslim lands should tell you where to stick your democratic elections, and I’ve no doubt in the near future they will!
I would agree with your final statement – democracy as evinced in the west is absolutely incompatible with Islam. Islam is about even-handedness, equity, equality and egalitarianism.
Comment by Mujaahid — June 10, 2009 @ 9:26 am
democracy as evinced in the west is absolutely incompatible with Islam
for once I agree
Does Islam blend with Democracy?
the short answer is no it dont
This will be a long post as il go into detail
Quote:
Does Islam coincide with the West on the rights of women?
Saudi woman minister needs permission to be on TV
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/08/AR2009060800821.html
An appeal court in Saudi Arabia has doubled the number of lashes and added a jail sentence as punishment for a woman who was
gang-raped
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7096814.stm
Saudi cleric favours one-eye veil
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7651231.stm
Saudi Cleric Says Women Must Wear One-Eye Veil to Prevent ‘Seduction’
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,432803,00.html
Thousands of Iranian women have been cautioned over their poor Islamic dress this week and several hundred arrested in the capital Tehran in the most fierce crackdown on what’s known as “bad hijab” for more than a decade.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6596933.stm
TEHRAN (Reuters) – Iranian police will launch a crackdown next month on small companies which fail to enforce strict religious dress codes, Mehr News Agency reported on Wednesday.
The move indicates an expansion of a clampdown on “immoral” conduct launched last year against women flouting rules to cover their heads and disguise the shape of their bodies in public, in line with Iran’s Islamic system.
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSBLA04786020080430
A hitherto unknown group calling itself the Just Swords of Islam issued a warning to Palestinian women in the Gaza Strip over the weekend that they must wear the hijab or face being targeted by the group’s members
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1164881802888&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
A young woman recently stoned to death in Somalia first pleaded for her life, a witness has told the BBC.
“Don’t kill me, don’t kill me,” she said, according to the man who wanted to remain anonymous. A few minutes later, more than 50 men threw stones.
Human rights group Amnesty International says the victim was a 13-year-old girl who had been raped.
Initial reports had said she was a 23-year-old woman who had confessed to adultery before a Sharia court.
Numerous eye-witnesses say she was forced into a hole, buried up to her neck then pelted with stones until she died in front of more than 1,000 people last week.
Meanwhile, Islamists in the capital, Mogadishu have carried out a public flogging.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7708169.stm
Somali girl ‘pleaded for mercy’ before Islamists stoned her to death for being raped
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1081214/Somali-girl-pleaded-mercy-Islamists-stoned-death-raped.html
treatment of gays in Islam
Iran Executes Two Gay Teens In Public Hanging
http://www.ukgaynews.org.uk/Archive/2005july/2101.htm
Gays in Pakistan Risk Harsh Islamic Retribution
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=3812795
Honour killings in western countries
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuVwgconEMI&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Epolitics%2Eie%2Fchat%2F74817%2Dmulticulturalism%2Ddeath%2Dknell%2Dirish%2Dculture%2D7%2Ehtml%23post1740129&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFsrMOHC1-0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Epolitics%2Eie%2Fchat%2F74817%2Dmulticulturalism%2Ddeath%2Dknell%2Dirish%2Dculture%2D7%2Ehtml%23post1740129&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SyU3jlQ_jI&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Epolitics%2Eie%2Fchat%2F74817%2Dmulticulturalism%2Ddeath%2Dknell%2Dirish%2Dculture%2D7%2Ehtml%23post1740129&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGtRVugNjcY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Epolitics%2Eie%2Fchat%2F74817%2Dmulticulturalism%2Ddeath%2Dknell%2Dirish%2Dculture%2D7%2Ehtml%23post1740129&feature=player_embedded
Female Genital Mutilation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsqEyGdLh8I&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Epolitics%2Eie%2Fchat%2F74817%2Dmulticulturalism%2Ddeath%2Dknell%2Dirish%2Dculture%2D7%2Ehtml%23post1740129&feature=player_embedded
just read the subtitles on what the woman has to say
from this article in the Irish independent
GARDAI have been asked to initiate prosecutions when incidents are uncovered in Ireland of female circumcision, or female genital mutilation
FGM is prevalent in some African and Islamic cultures.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/prosecutions-ordered-on-female-mutilation-cases-353169.html
:
How many non-muslims have relgious rights in muslim countries?
The government has stood by and let jihadist gangs drive Jews out of Yemen. Now their community is on the brink of extinction
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/07/yemen-jews-exodus-arab-countries
Christians in Saudi Arabia: no churches allowed
http://www.bloggernews.net/16261
Comment by Talia — June 10, 2009 @ 6:21 pm
Excellent post Talia. We can only look at how the Copts are being treated in Egypt, how Christians are being treated in Pakistan etc etc.
However, we need not worry. The day will come when the West won’t need oil anymore, and what will the Islamic countries do then?
Oh, I guess they could always fall back on all the wonderful, progressive science and inventions that is currently flourishing in all the Islamic societies of today. Ahem.
And Egan — muslim women and men are NOT excluded from employment. They are choosing to keep symbols that are breaching safety aspects as well as neutrality issues. Read again: CHOOSING.
Just like you chose to convert and worship a murderous, illiterate pedophile who advocated war, slavery, rape and the drinking of camel urine. Not to mention the fact that he coveted his own daughter. Nice. And you think for one second that this ideology is remotely capable of using the concept of democracy? Thanks for the laugh, I always enjoy your posts — hilarious!!!
Comment by Yogabba — June 10, 2009 @ 7:09 pm
Yawn…Yogabba your very presence, if it be the product of a democracy, is ample evidence of its failures
Talia – sigh, you were right – a very long winded post that was refuted before you ever set your mind to it. Imagine all that wasted time, poor dear.
Comment by Mujaahid — June 11, 2009 @ 12:09 am
Hi all,
Why are we wasting our time engaging with the lapsed Christian, The Very Reverend Liam Egan? And why, out of the 40,000 or so Muslims in Ireland, is he the only one that ever opens his yap on any of these issues? Could it be that he is a lone crank? Surely not!
Liam, maybe you need to come up with another ‘Alter Ego’ to make it look like there are actually two people in the whole country who share your beliefs…
Comment by The Kafir — June 11, 2009 @ 5:26 am
Kafir, you are absolutely right.
Never argue with an idiot — first they drag you down to their level and then they beat you with experience!!
Comment by Yogabba — June 11, 2009 @ 7:01 am
I’ll take your advice Kafir and stop arguing (though an argument necessarily includes two valid propositions, as you never had one it couldn’t rightly be termed such) with Yogabba.
Also, there are 58,000+ Muslims in Ireland, it took decades for Muslims in the UK to stand up and speak, it’s already happening here – even if you think it’s one person. You have a very poor grasp of history if you expect immediate unity.
If you guys are the sum total of blasphemy.ie – well, my job just got easier
Comment by Mujaahid — June 11, 2009 @ 9:54 am
Quote from Mujaahid: Talia – sigh, you were right – a very long winded post that was refuted before you ever set your mind to it. Imagine all that wasted time, poor dear.
So Islamic countries are a beacon of light of light for human rights,gay rights,womens rights,im sorry i got it all wrong thanx for clarifying my mistake
I left out child marriages in muslim countries
Video: Sharia Expert Defends Child Marriage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlrJxaxaHRU
8 year old Saudi Child Bride (SHOCKING).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0yGHUdhTrU
Saudi’s say OK to child bride’s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFhENFnudWY&feature=related
Child Marriage in Afghanistan: 7-y-old bride, 17-y-old groom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEYuajmVgNM&feature=related
Child marriage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BWP9MYDHDk
Muslim girl attempted suicide at 11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjSmX5aLYLA&feature=related
muslim scholar condones child marriage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFI3A9ivxPc
Yemen Islamists Fight Law Banning Child Marriage
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/16/yemen-islamists-fight-law_n_187943.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,516881,00.html
Yemeni Girl, 8, Buys Her Way Out of Marriage
http://middleeast.about.com/b/2008/04/17/yemeni-girl-8-buys-her-way-out-of-marriage.htm
Child marriage in Yemen : Interviews with 2 girl-brides who appealed to court for divorce [MEMRI].
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1194419829128&pagename=JPost%2FPage%2FVideoPlayer&videoId=1243346520471
Pakistan: Child marriages on the rise across rural Sindh
http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/view/3105/1/160/
Child Marriages in Pakistan
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1170596/child_marriages_in_pakistan.html?cat=41
Top Saudi cleric: OK for young girls to wed
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/17/saudi.child.marriage/index.html
U.S. Calls Saudi Child Marriage a Rights Violation
Court Upheld Marriage of 8-year-old Girl to a Man 50 Years Older Than Her
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=7344616
Comment by Talia — June 11, 2009 @ 12:52 pm
There is no doubt that Islam upholds the sanctity of marriage and would rather see young people of marriageable age in a legitimate and honourable relationship. You do know that hundreds of young Irish girls (under the age of 14) travel to Britain each year to have abortions. To many the answer is – make abortion legal here, no condemnation of the immorality though. So please don’t feign morality, you do such a bad job.
Comment by Mujaahid — June 11, 2009 @ 2:01 pm
There is no doubt that Islam upholds the sanctity of marriage and would rather see young people of marriageable age
and what age do you consider a marriageable age do you consider the age of 8 to be a marriage age?
You do know that hundreds of young Irish girls (under the age of 14) travel to Britain each year to have abortions.
and how many of them resulted in getting pregnant due to forced marriages to older men at a very young age?
Comment by Talia — June 11, 2009 @ 2:27 pm
Marriageable age from a Judeo/Christian/Islamic perspective is determined by both physical and mental readiness.
So your issue isn’t necessarily about the age at which one engages in sexual activity, but rather the age difference – now there’s a moral twist.
Comment by Mujaahid — June 11, 2009 @ 9:02 pm
Marriageable age from a Judeo/Christian/Islamic perspective is determined by both physical and mental readiness.
So your issue isn’t necessarily about the age at which one engages in sexual activity, but rather the age difference – now there’s a moral twist.
So il ask again
and what age do you consider a marriageable age do you consider the age of 8 to be a marriage age?
8 year old Saudi Child Bride (SHOCKING).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0yGHUdhTrU
Do you consider the age of the girl in that case to be of marriage age yes or no?
Comment by Talia — June 11, 2009 @ 9:38 pm
And for the record,the fact child marriages are even allowed in some muslim countries,the fact its even legal not against the law
in some muslim countries, speaks volumes about how backward and medieval Islam is
Comment by Talia — June 11, 2009 @ 9:46 pm
Talia asked, “what age do you consider a marriageable age do you consider the age of 8 to be a marriage age?” Answered – Marriageable age from a Judeo/Christian/Islamic perspective is determined by both physical and mental readiness. There isn’t any one age as this ‘maturity’ is obviously determined by a number of factors – culture, climate, etc.
With regard to the case in Saudi – the marriage was simply an engagement. Many such arrangements are made around the world for a host of different reasons.
Again you hardly hold the moral high ground Talia – you do not condemn sex before marriage, even if it is between young people.
Comment by Mujaahid — June 11, 2009 @ 11:02 pm
With regard to the case in Saudi – the marriage was simply an engagement.
since you didnt condemm it, i can only assume you condone it,now why dont that surprise me
hadith ch 10 It is permissible for the father to give the hand of his daughter in marriage even when she is not fully grown up.
http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=701&Itemid=94
Comment by Talia — June 11, 2009 @ 11:10 pm
It’s no surprise that Mujaahid wants special protection for his beliefs. These are not ideas that can survive without protection. Where all ideas are open to discussion, criticism and publication, the idea that young girls may be bought and raped by old men is not one that is likely to thrive. It needs special protection. In the Muslim world, it gets this. The “Prophet” approved it and therefore it is permissible. Anyone who disagrees risks death. In the civilised world, it is rightly regarded as an abhorrent practice. But those, like Mujaahid, who approve of such practices have learned to exploit our tolerance and our ingrained respect for any idea that someone calls a religion. That way, when we voice our disgust at child rape, they tell us that “from a Judeo/Christian/Islamic perspective” it’s perfectly acceptable, and that it’s we in the West who are decadent because we “do not condemn sex before marriage” – as if, somehow, the ritual were more important than the principle of consent.
There are, unfortunately, many people in the West who are so concerned with respecting people’s right to their religious beliefs and practices that they forget about the rights of children not to be mutilated or raped. It is this well-meaning but misguided element that people like Mujaahid seek to exploit, by having them silence any criticism of these despicable practices in the name of religious tolerance.
Comment by Derek — June 12, 2009 @ 12:33 am
FAO Talia, you’re dead right, but do not bother debating this guy; he’s low life scum. Seriously, don’t waste your time.
Adam
Comment by Adam Dinan — June 12, 2009 @ 2:30 am
FAO Talia, you’re dead right, but do not bother debating this guy; he’s low life scum. Seriously, don’t waste your time.
I dont have to now,I posted that to see what reaction I would get
And I got the reaction I thought I would get so enough said
Comment by Talia — June 12, 2009 @ 12:14 pm
Derek, Talia, Adam – a few questions:
1. Do you condone immorality?
2. Do you condone homosexuality?
3. Do you condone pedophilia?
4. Do you condone incest?
5. Do you condone adultery?
6. Do you condone rape?
7. Do you condone pornography?
Islam condemns them all, and the causes that lead to them such as unnecessary mixing of the sexes, alcohol consumption and a host of other evils. Again I say, you are in no position to lecture any Muslim
Comment by Mujaahid — June 12, 2009 @ 6:22 pm
8. Do you condone Islam?
9. Do you condone making videos of yourself and giving yourself fake whoops and applause http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6D3kHnptck&feature=channel_page
Comment by Garlandgreen — June 14, 2009 @ 9:50 am
Ireland is a beautiful country with a rich history. Dublin is one of my favorite cities in the world.
I can’t think how a law like this will impact tourism (and tourists like myself) if they choose to enact it on visitors from other countries not to mention the direct sociopolitical ramifications within the country.
“Shortsighted” is the kindest label I can put on this move.
Comment by Christie — July 27, 2009 @ 9:04 pm