blasphemy.ie

May 12, 2009

79 Comments »

1. 

   That’s “Flying Spaghetti Monster”. His Noodliness does not take kindly to having His name abridged. And why do you assume such a church does not already exist in Ireland?

   Seriously though, in my view, the FSM is the way to go. Picking on particular religions, whether the Catholic church or Muslims (who are no more 100% fanatics than Irish Catholics are) simply annoys potential supporters. It’s worth noting how many audience members on Monday’s Questions & Answers identified themselves as religious, then went on to speak against criminalising blasphemy. Calling for the inclusion of the FSM within the ambit of the law provides an opportunity to argue the absurdity of the legislation. After all, that’s what the FSM was originally designed for.

   If you have the funding, might I suggest a bus advertisement, matching this effort: http://www.atheistbus.org.uk/bus-photos/

   More short term, develop a few talking points for letters/email to council or byelection candidates, to newspapers (don’t forget the provincial press either, there’s life beyond the Pale) or any canvassers who call to the door in the next few weeks, and link prominently to them from the website’s front page with a What You Can Do Now link.

   Comment by Gerard Cunningham — May 13, 2009 @ 12:33 am

2. 

   I’ve corrected the FSM reference, Gerard. Wouldn’t want to start the campaign by blaspheming against Him.

   Comment by Michael Nugent — May 13, 2009 @ 12:51 am

3. 

   Is there a charitable foundation in Ireland a la the RDF? I don’t know if it is possible within the charities legislation to actually set up a secularist charity, because a charity cannot have a political purpose in Ireland. However, creating a trust fund out of which to fund these campaigns is an excellent idea. I would definitely subscribe to that trust fund.

   When the fund is not engaged in combating medieval forces, it could engage in philanthropic work, such as educational support and sports for kids.

   Comment by Cormac MacGowan — May 13, 2009 @ 7:51 am

4. 

   Oh, I meant to say. If anyone would like to engage with me to set up such a trust, I can do it – I’ve got the requisite legal and financial background to make it happen.

   Comment by Cormac MacGowan — May 13, 2009 @ 7:51 am

5. 

   Should add to “8. Matter that could be illegal” : Father Ted

   Comment by Fran O'Reilly — May 13, 2009 @ 7:54 am

6. 

   Holy Feckin Jaysus! Ireland Creates New Government Agency To Enforce Blasphemy Laws: http://www.blather.net/shitegeist/2009/05/holy_feckin_jaysus_ireland_creates_new_g.htm

   Comment by Damien — May 13, 2009 @ 8:11 am

7. 

   Here’s my rant –

   Blasphemy is a victimless crime. An enormous number of adults keep the concept of santa claus / tooth fairy alive for the benefit of still-developing minds, unfortunatly a very high percentage of these same adults still profess a child-like/ish belief in a supreme being. I see no difference between the marketing of santa and a deity, just the tone of the sales pitch. Why would a supposed deity need mere mortals to defend his/her/it? Perhaps there should be change in focus: our glorious political leaders are intent on changing the blasphemy laws – do they have some inside knowledge that we don’t have? Does higher office grant an insight into the existence of a deity? As they are making the change, let them prove to us that a gaseous vertebrate does indeed exist.

   This country is going down the tubes, and minister aherne is pandering to a bunch of old guys in frocks? Will we see the creation of the thought police? Any publication that questions orthodoxy will face censorship, possibly a heavy fine. And our govt is putting millions into attracting the best rational minds to Ireland, to work in academic research?

   Best thing to do is to remove any mention of blasphemy on our books. We are in practice a secular society, let the law reflect that.

   Rant over…

   Comment by saoirse — May 13, 2009 @ 8:50 am

8. 

   Nobody expects the Irish Inquisition!

   Comment by Sigmund — May 13, 2009 @ 10:16 am

9. 

   One of the most effective quotes is surely from a statement by Mícheál Martin, Minister for Foreign Affairs, last December:

   “We believe that the concept of defamation of religion is not consistent with the promotion and protection of human rights. It can be used to justify arbitrary limitations on, or the denial of, freedom of expression. Indeed, Ireland considers that freedom of expression is a key and inherent element in the manifestation of freedom of thought and conscience and as such is complementary to freedom of religion or belief.”

   What part of this does Dermot Ahern not understand? What happened between December and April to cause a volte-face in government policy?

   Comment by Sinéad — May 13, 2009 @ 11:57 am

10. 

    If it is illegal to “blaspheme” various religious “Gods” or icons then surely proof of these entities existence must be provided. We could use this debate to bring to a head the Religion versus Science debate just in time for the European release of “Angels and Demons” of which that debate is a central theme.

    Comment by Brendo — May 13, 2009 @ 12:07 pm

11. 

    On the slogans:

    * Blasphemy is a victimless crime

    Probably the best of the lot. Short, snappy, to the point, has blasphemy in it so random punters know what its about, likely to get the atheist point across without pissing religious opponents of the Ahern amendment off too much. Perfect for the side of a bus.

    Coming in second:

    * Protect people, not their ideas

    Needs some context to link it to blasphemy, but also a strong message with broad appeal.

    And third:

    * Your religion is blasphemous to me

    Perhaps change to – “Your faith is my blasphemy” or “Your religion is my blasphemy” or “Your faith: My blasphemy”

    Others:

    * Blasphemy is not a right, It is a duty

    I’d change that to “Blasphemy isn’t a crime – it’s a duty”.

    # Oppose the religious bullying law

    To the point, but not grabby. Good as a standard follow up to one of the other slogans.

    * Let gods deal with blasphemy

    Isn’t a strong atheist message, but likely to appeal to the religious.

    * Welcome to the Irish Inquisition

    Change to “No one expects the Irish Inquisition!” and stick it under a nice big picture of Dermot Ahern.

    * Don’t blaspheme the Flying Spaghetti Monster

    With all due respect to the His Noodliness, this won’t mean much to the masses who have sadly not been touched by His Noodley Appendage without some context and explanation.

    Comment by Woesinger — May 13, 2009 @ 1:21 pm

12. 

    Firstly, a sincere thank you to Michael for all the work you’ve put into this campaign.

    On slogans -

    * “Blasphemy is a victimless crime” gets my number one vote.
    * Also, “Don’t blaspheme the Flying Spaghetti Monster” – should its symbolic nature succeed in highlighting the ludicrous and far reaching implications of this blasphemy law; if publicized effectively to the general public, could become a contagious slogan or counter claim for all those who oppose the blasphemy law.

    Campaign ideas -

    * The petition calling for a referendum for all theistic clauses to be removed from the constitution – absolutely essential.
    * The bus ads would be the proverbial icing of the cake, if we can manage it.

    Political lobbying -

    * Always a good idea, but may be ineffectual until there are masses of outraged lobbyists.

    May i also suggest an idea..

    * In order to highlight the extent and severity of this total rape of our human rights –

    A well publicized display – in a place of prominence in Dublin city centre – of anything and everything we can get our hands on that could soon be deemed illegal;
    books (including theistic works), movies, paintings, newspaper articles, t-shirt slogans, bumper car stickers, etc.

    Add to that posters of various well respected public figures who could potentially be prosecuted and fined under the legislation, ie – Richard Dawkins, David Attenborough, Stephen Fry, Hugh Laurie, Woody Allen, Bob Geldof… maybe even the christian pope (whose statements undoubtedly could be considered “grossly blasphemous” by followers of opposing religions)…
    Perhaps smattered with slogans of “I am now subject to libel” or something similar – surely this would alert the public and the media as to how absolutely preposterous and gravely insulting to human intelligence this law could be if put into place and acted upon.

    I think only public outrage; which is to say, hordes of citizens equally enraged by the proposed law as us atheists; will incite the political will to push a referendum.

    As someone once said…

    “I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”

    - Thomas Jefferson

    Comment by Maria — May 13, 2009 @ 3:39 pm

13. 

    Perhaps we should consider combining public protest with the staging of blasphemous events. Encourage people to bring along blasphemous materials such as the Satanic verses, The God Delusion, God is Not Great et cetera and have public readings of said material outside the Oireachtas. If the speaker is removed another takes their place and continues the reading until their is no longer any room left to store the offenders. By proving the law unenforcible it may demonstrate its inate uselessness.

    Comment by ShaneOC — May 13, 2009 @ 4:09 pm

14. 

    Hi guys, I just want to talk tactics for a moment, given that our objective is stopping the passing into law of this bill.
    Athiests and agnostics are used to using logic and being open to considering persuasive arguements. To a somewhat lesser extent are those who are liberal or “loose” adherents to relign. Fundamentalists and deeply religious people atr not as a rue open to the reception of anything that conflicts with their indoctrinations.
    Unfortunately, we live in a country where;
    -These people are a significent part of the electorate
    -The Dail is composed mainly of people who (outwardly at least) claim a sincere adherence to religion
    -The main goverment party from which the responsible minister is drawn is to the forefront in stroke politics,
    and this bill has all the hall marks of a stroke given the difficulty the government now finds itself in.
    -we have no idea how many (if any) of our politicians belong to a eligious based, secretive organisation e.g Opus Dei, Knights of Columbanus, Free-masons etc and what influence these organisations have had on the sudden arrival of this issue on the scene.

    Given the above, should our best tactics be to put pressure on the Government partners and sow discord there. It seems to me that Minister Ahern has run with his without consulting the green party. Additionally, some or the independents who support the government may make an intervention that may prove to be an own goal, permitting a easoned debale.
    I also feel that Our strongest hand lies in argueing that the new bill would permit adherents of say any cult with maybe five members to claim outrage for some percived slight inflicted by the majority, and by drawing attention to such events as the “Muslim Cartoon” disgrace,
    Jack Butler

    Comment by Jack Butler — May 13, 2009 @ 4:39 pm

15. 

    I have to agree with Jack Butler in regard to putting pressure on the Greens and Independents in Goverment. Senator Dan Boyle has also come out against the proposed legislation and is running for election as an MEP. Even Micheal Martin has very recently made statements against the concept of legislating for blasphemy (in relation to the UN proposition on defamation of Islam), so there seems to be very little in the way of coherent policy from the government on this one.

    By the way, kudos on all the work on the site, Michael. Fair play to you.

    Comment by Barry Grant — May 13, 2009 @ 5:50 pm

16. 

    Just a few more thoughts,of, I think a practical nature.

    First, could everyone google http://www.blasphemy.ie together with some phrases say like Flying Speghetti Monster and well known names that appear on this site so that the site gets some additional promenance? It’ll only take a few seconds.
    Secondly, make your opposition known in no uncertain and logical (but non-abusive)terms to Mr. Ahern.
    His e-mailaddress is, dermot@dermotahern.ie his postal address is, Constituency Office, Dermot Ahern TD,
    28 Francis Street,Dundalk, Co. Louth. Tel, 042 9329023

    Thirdly, I don’t know how accurate it is, but I looked up Mr. Ahern on Wikipedia.org and while only one single line refers to the Blasphemy bill. a whole paragraph describes what appears to be his homophobia and his opposition to homosexuals as been driven by the “Lord” (He is quoted there as saying “The lord provided us with sexual organs for a specific purpose. Homosexuals are like lefthand drivers driving on the right-hand side of the road”). Did he really say such a thing? If so does he believe this? What did he mean by it? Is it a indication of his mindset i.e that of a right-wing fundamentalist? If so is there a place for such a mindset in modern Ireland?
    I don’t know, but please understand that I am attacking this mans ideas and actions rather than the man himself,
    Regards,
    Jack

    Comment by Jack Butler — May 13, 2009 @ 9:23 pm

17. 

    Jack, the Wikipedia quote is accurate but misleading as it is phrased ambiguously. It refers to a 1993 Dail debate on legalising gay sex. The extraordinary quote about the Lord providing us with sexual organs for a specific purpose was included in a speech by Fine Gael TD Brendan McGahon. Dermot Ahern then began his own speech by saying: “I do not often find myself in agreement with my constituency colleague, Deputy McGahon, but on this occasion I am. Perhaps it has something to do with the atmosphere in our constituency.” In fairness, he was probably agreeing with McGahon’s opposition to the Bill rather than with that particular quote.

    However, Ahern did go on to express homophobic remarks in more temperate language. He said “As legislators, we have a duty to legislate for the common good. We seem to have reached the stage where we are legislating for pressure and minority groups.” He said that the recent murder of a child in Britain showed that society was breaking down, and one of the reasons was the breakdown of the family unit. He then asked: “Will we eventually see the day in this country when, as has happened in the USA, homosexuals will seek the right to adopt children? We should think seriously about this possibility.”

    The following part of Ahern’s speech about gay sex may also provide some insight into his views on blasphemy: “We have a duty to legislate for the standards and norms which we regard as appropriate for the Irish people. This does not necessarily have to include all the people, but we should strive to achieve a certain standard and norm in our society. The Houses of the Oireachtas have the primary function of laying down rules for the people and the standards they should strive to achieve, and we should never forget that.”

    Comment by Michael Nugent — May 14, 2009 @ 12:28 am

18. 

    Thanks Mike,
    Just as well I prefaced the remarks by my admission on the accruacy of wikipedia. However your clarification only seems (to me) to make matters worse.

    If there is any way in which I can assist the campaign, you have my e-mail address

    Comment by Jack Butler — May 14, 2009 @ 3:04 am

19. 

    While I’m an atheist I feel resisting this legisaltion is an issue of far greater importance than potraying an atheist pov at this time and would prefer to see a campaign capitalize on as much support from the broader community as possible. Therefore I think the campaign should avoid alienating non-atheist individuals as much as possible. The slogan which best achieves that goal would be “Protect people, not their ideas” imo.

    Comment by imokyrok — May 16, 2009 @ 1:19 pm

20. 

    I’m not an atheist, and I don’t like to get up the noses of religious people, unless they’re getting up my nose, so some of the proposed slogans and tactics I wouldn’t agree with (like lots of people signing a blasphemous statement – that would probably just be seen as deliberately provoking and disrespecting people of faith -it’s not like they’re all calm and logical. Unless, of course we used the ACME Deity of the Flying Spaghetti Monster…)

    I was once called to testify in a rural court, and I was asked to swear on a bible, and I declined, stating that I’d wish to affirm, rather than swear on a bible. Well, these folks were not having that, so there was a bit of a standoff until it got into their heads, that not everyone follows their religion. It’s a mindset that’s slow to change, especially when it perceives insults and attacks.

    I think drawing them towards the conclusions of this law is better.
    Like, raising the idea of the Irish state persecuting Salman Rushdie and raiding his house for copies of The Satanic Verses, if he happened to be living in Dublin when he wrote it.

    Comment by Tadhg — May 18, 2009 @ 4:43 pm

21. 

    With a quotes from Shaw, we could have “There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book. Books are well written, or badly written.” from Wilde, for example, and find something from Joyce, to get a collection from Irish writers.

    Comment by William — May 19, 2009 @ 12:52 pm

22. 

    Not sure if there’s another one but here’s the link to my new (and empty)Flying Spaghetti Monster Ireland page on Facebook. Though I’d give it a go and see if anyone joined! All journalistic contributions welcome.
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=731774140&ref=profile#/group.php?gid=92181517989&ref=mf

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